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Recent MoMs with iON https://dupesofnonphysical.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=751 |
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Author: | rhyee [ October 19th, 2011, 1:30 am ] |
Post subject: | Recent MoMs with iON |
1. Monday Night Colloquia 25, Sept.26, 2011 Guests: Continue focus on the writings of Arthur Kroker, and interview "Marshall McLuhan" http://fivebodied.com/archives/audio/ca ... aui-25.mp3 2. Monday Night Colloquia 26 (Closed session), Oct.6, 2011 Guests: Performance artist and educationalist Ken Hudson, and interview "Marshall McLuhan" and "Corinne McLuhan" http://fivebodied.com/archives/audio/ca ... aui-26.mp3 3. Monday Night Colloquia 27 (Closed session), Oct.13, 2011 Guests: Playwright Scott Taylor, musician and software code-ist Chad Nantais, and continue interview with "Marshall McLuhan" and "Corinne McLuhan" http://fivebodied.com/archives/audio/ca ... aui-27.mp3 Bob Dobbs |
Author: | tayzay [ October 20th, 2011, 2:28 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Recent MoMs with iON |
thanks Bob. I've been on the look out for #27. #26 is fabulous. xox Tiny |
Author: | Bart [ October 29th, 2011, 8:46 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Recent MoMs with iON |
Bob would gripe that I used to make these long posts (here or elsewhere), and that he didn't have time to read them, but "had" to (likely as a matter of ensuring his character wasn't being disparaged hehe). Well, I'm here to file a similar complaint, and that is that as soon as I finish listening to one three hour McLuhan on / under / over easy Maui, Cash Flow or tailgate, three more audio archives appear. How much god damn time do you think we have on our hands? How the hell are we supposed to listen to all of this? We have jobs and families. Bob doesn't care. Just keeps talking. I have half a mind to go on for several pages, because I know Bob would have to read to the last word to see where I'd go with this. I would, but I refrain from doing so out of courtesy to the reader *staring at Bob*. What the hell's the matter with you people? OK, I may go on... Actually, I just finished listening to the October 13 MUM with Scott and Chad and found that to be a wonderful exchange. In particular, iON's description of the Merkaba in the last ten minutes or so of the third hour was profound (the whole show, for me, was engaging and groundbreaking, but don't tell Bob). If you listen to that segment (around the 2hr 10min mark), there is so much to pick apart. iON goes on for about ten minutes and, after listening to that ten minute segment several times, I found several different aspects that on their own could lead in many directions. A lot is being said there. On a side note, a lot is always being said, but by virtue of this, because there is so much data streaming in, we may only become aware of, or focus in on certain bits / bytes here and there. There is so much to take in. I say that segment is profound, because as iON points to the form of the Merkaba (the two opposing pyramids: one pointing downward representing Heaven, and one pointing upward, representing Earth) as a visual representation of ascended man, he also undermines, or cautions against the use / abuse / overuse of imagery and speaks to the visual bias / aspect of our experience. iON refers to the Merkaba (and likely any) image as being "tactile" (meaning, a sufficient, but mostly inadequate, ephemeral, and given simply for the sake of convenience, visual representation of the ascension process). iON points out that this same merging / ascension is also represented elsewhere (e.g., in da Vinci's "Vitruvian Man" drawing, the Star of David, the biblical Heaven coming to Earth, etc.). iON then says, "Because you can see it, you can't know it." (a variation on what you see isn't real, and what you can't see is real). We know that a symbol is not the thing that it represents. You can't eat a menu. If you see the Buddha on the road, kill him. If you can see him, he's not the real Buddha (You are, in fact, what is being referred to, but you can't see yourself. That's the rub). This particular MUM as a whole was actually very interesting, as the group was also pursuing tones, frequency and frequency modulation (it's all about frequency), to which iON offered another visual representation in the form of dashed lines. The dashed lines topic was probed somewhat, and clearly could have gone further; although, I'm not sure it needed to be. It may have ended up a means to provide the questioner with another visual bias. The visual bias, in particular, an attempt to create an image or definition of what the hell we're engaged in seemed to be a central theme in this MUM (they all are, to some degree, but this one more so). What I enjoyed most about this particular exchange was this drive to grasp something somewhat tangible of our shared experience; the nature of our experience; existence. To me, the point at which this discussion becomes moot is when one "knows"; and you can't know, or rather, you can't create knowing by asking questions, or engaging in a dialogue. The knowing comes on its own. Bob knows this, and engages in dialogue for dialogue's sake. It's one reason iON says he's (iON) engaging with us - because we desire the engagement. iON is the part of us that exists outside what we refer to as space and time; at a place where all things are known - where all things are. From that place, our union is complete; therefore, iON makes chit chat as he/she/it watches this aspect of ourselves align with that experience more fully. Where Bob engages in a dialogue as entertainment, a diversion and form of making simpatico with his fellow humans, I write lengthy posts strictly as a form of torture (mostly, directed toward Bob). What is happening outside, under, or beneath these exchanges is what is truly transformational. One practical example is that the RnA Drops are ascending us and we have no idea what the hell is going on. We don't "see" anything odd (save for some physical symptoms), but the most profound process ever to occur on this, or any other world is taking place in our bodies this moment and we haven't the fucking faintest. In any event, iON seems to offer a response to his statement, "Because you can see it, you can't know it." In the end, the heart of the matter, iON explains, is the heart (not the organ, beating in our chest, but as it relates to frequency; emotion; a feeling place). You can't see, or grasp emotions / feelings. These frequencies, or the lining up of these frequencies is done from a feeling place. An image or visual representation of joy is not joy. It is a note / chord you strike when you're engaging in something you enjoy; that makes you feel good. So, the process of engaging with iON "the gong" non-physical (AKA the hammer), the RnA Drops, and whatever brings us joy (the joy frequency) is "it". There is no way to get there through intellectual pursuits. As iON has said, our mind is like a computer hard drive that, by misusing / abusing / taking a certain perspective (false premise) on thought, we've gotten stuck in an endless start-up loop that could have been doomed never to get anywhere. The only way to win is to leave it be. Get out of our own way. Bob makes a statement in this regard that, although it sounds like iON disagrees, seems a fairly accurate statement about our position right now. Bob responds to Scott, who is sorting things out (around the 2hr 40min. mark), by referencing the trompe l'oeil image (optical illusion / failure of visual bias to grasp what is real). Bob's statement I refer to above is made by iON in response to Scott's confusion, "The confusion is the essence of your knowing. That's contrast that you play with to validate your platitudes and vicissitudes." Bob adds to this, recalling a statement he says iON made earlier, that as we get further into our knowing, that our perception or sense of confusion also increases (Bob says we may be 51% knowing and 49% experiencing confusion). iON does respond and correct Bob, saying that contrast would still be there, but it would be obfuscated. obfuscate verb 1.to confuse, bewilder, or stupefy. 2.to make obscure or unclear: to obfuscate a problem with extraneous information. The confusion is a form of contrast and, apparently, a form that will still exist even after the ascension process is complete. The fact that confusion may still exist in one at that point may seem a paradox given our preconceptions about ascension, but in one sense, it's great, because it forces us to abandon these models. There is always a paradox, and this is an element that keeps the skids greased. It always ensures new experiences, and makes for an awesome journey. I like Bob's statement, however, as it points to this sense / experience of possessing both a knowing, and a perception of areas about which one would profess no knowledge / knowing. It feels incomplete, and this is the 51% / 49% experience I believe Bob is referring to. iON says we will reach a point where we "know", but how complete is this knowing? If my observation on paradox (imm. above) is anywhere near reality, then we never will have that loose end tied up. That's fine with me. To the intellectual seeker, which I consider myself to be, this is a form of torture; but only insomuch as you push against it, or allow it to be. So, I'm cool with it. There really is no point. It's all fun. What else is forever for? Where are we going. How will we know when we get there? What does it matter? It doesn't. Consider this my prolix retort to Bob's hostile expansion of his audio library. I apologize. iON made me do it. Actually, in the spirit of what Bob is doing, I'd like to make a suggestion. As you, Bob, have, at times, gone an entire day engaged in various conversations, may I suggest you undertake the same with a slight slant: Pick a day, either when you plan to engage iONites or not, wear a body mic and record a full twelve, or sixteen hours of your exchanges (could be with iONites or just people throughout your day...). You've actually already played an audio excerpt of this sort of recording that included Carolyn and another gentleman. This would be along the same lines. Anyway, just a thought. Selah |
Author: | tayzay [ October 29th, 2011, 11:13 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Recent MoMs with iON |
Bart's back in the flow!!! Doing what he does and doing it well!! Of course, this is just my opinion based on my precepts, biases and whatever other word/label one would attach. Thanks for the Fun read. xoxo |
Author: | Bart [ November 9th, 2011, 8:02 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Recent MoMs with iON |
rhyee wrote: ... 2. Monday Night Colloquia 26 (Closed session), Oct.6, 2011 Guests: Performance artist and educationalist Ken Hudson, and interview "Marshall McLuhan" and "Corinne McLuhan" http://fivebodied.com/archives/audio/ca ... aui-26.mp3 ... Bob Dobbs OK, I listened to all of the MUMs (out of order) Bob posted above. The last one I listened to was the Oct. 6 MUM, where Ken and iON discussed Ken's experiences as an avatar (his explorations with his (and in the) chip body). Tayzay said she really liked this episode, and I concur. iON discussed Ken's (our) experience of our avatar selves, and how the wonder and limitless potential of that experience exists in our physical - the dirty here and now (naturally). ![]() We knew this, but it was a great illustration of ways our experience can play out, as we decide. We've heard Bob tell about J.W.'s experience (pre-iON, I believe) of looking out his window(s) at home and seeing different worlds. iON brings up these experiences again in this episode, and relates it to the avatar experience. iON said J.W. looked out his window, which granted a certain perspective, and was able to see "varying / different landscapes". iON is careful to choose his words, because none of these experiences are "foreign" ("new to our experience at the moment" would be more appropriate), or "out there", we just thought they were. Everything is accessible to us this moment. We are being synced up, whether we are aware of it or not. If you notice iON's care with phraseology, you'll see how he is cautious not to interfere with that process. It's tricky, because iON is making reference to, and bringing in notions and experiences that we have placed at a certain distance. iON is assisting in bridging this gap, as he steps lightly around, and addresses (at least, in part) the labyrinth that created that distance. What iON says is (paraphrasing), "Imagine waking up one morning and having your avatar experience - being your avatar"; meaning, your landscape changes, as does your measurement of your new self as compared to a recent benchmark. We could say that, waking up to this completely novel experience would be a leap from the smaller shifts / changes we're seeing in ourselves now. The perceived difference between what we see on one side versus the other (below), for example. ![]() ![]() At the moment, in our current (physical) experience, although just as limitless as our avatar experiences, we still have yet to experience what we have as an avatar - what J.W. physically experienced with the "other worlds". I found an interesting article that supports what Ken and iON were saying about people exercising their avatars and actually losing weight. Here are some excerpts, Quote: On many fronts simultaneously, avatars are changing how we think of ourselves, how we see ourselves, and especially challenging our sense of identity. An avatar is the quintessential Metalife. It can look like you, even move, talk, and think like you. But how prepared are you to say it is you? Some part of you? Before you answer, consider the following study by Stanford researchers Yee and Bailenson, showing the effect of an altered self-representation on behavior in an online environment: Participants who had more attractive avatars exhibited increased self-disclosure and were more willing to approach opposite-gendered strangers after less than 1 minute of exposure to their altered avatar. In other words, the attractiveness of their avatars impacted how intimate participants were willing to be with a stranger. In our second study, participants who had taller avatars were more willing to make unfair splits in negotiation tasks than those who had shorter avatars, whereas participants with shorter avatars were more willing to accept unfair offers than those who had taller avatars. Thus, the height of their avatars impacted how confident participants became. These two studies show the dramatic and almost instantaneous effect that avatars have on behavior in digital environments. ![]() More than our behavior in virtual environments is changing. Our sense of personal boundaries, our relationship to our bodies and to others—all are affected by the rush to avatar ourselves. ...But I want to be clear: I do not consider avatar-ing to be a mind game. This is not, in Sir Ken Robinson’s elegant locution, a case of arranging a stunt double “to carry our heads from meeting to meeting.” Avatars alter our sense ratio. They scramble our proprioception. The plain fact is avatars take us in another body somewhere we have never been before. While some may see an avatar as the ultimate self-referential indulgence, or others as a kind of psychological recursion, avatars are doing something new to us. Whatever your “blink” reaction to this novelty may be, I urge you to consider the following and reflect. How are these uses of avatars expanding what it means to be human, to be you? And then, how should we explore that meaning before jumping to premature cognitive commitments which can keep us from seeing the fuller understanding of what we’re actually up to here? ... 6. An extension of your five senses. Jeremy Bailenson of the Stanford Virtual Human Interaction Lab says in the Frontline Digital Nation documentary: “The first time we ran the study [of subjects watching their avatar eat], subjects would report being sick, feeling full, really changing their physiology. We’re not wired to differentiate experiences like this one [watching your avatar eat in a virtual world] from actual eating. Digital stuff is such a new phenomenon, if it looks real and feels real and smells real, the brain tells us it’s real.” 7. A better version of you. According to Jane McGonigal of the Institute for the Future, we spend three billion hours a week playing online games. McGonigal’s research shows that many people play games because they feel “I’m not good at life.” But in games you can choose to be a version of you–an avatar–that is stronger, more beautiful or handsome, a different body size and shape. As other researchers have found, this better version of ourselves can be used to change behaviors or to feel better about ourselves generally. Of course as Sharon Begley reported in Newsweek, this versioning of ourselves can be a two-edged sword: “players who roamed a virtual world as a KKK-clad avatar felt more aggressive than they did before playing the game, while those whose avatar wore a doctor’s coat scored higher on a test of friendliness.” ... SOURCE - http://metalifestream.com/wordpress/?p=2324 iON says in this episode that the more you engage your avatar experience, the more you are bringing that experience to your physical / chemical body. This was a very interesting statement. Now, iON was speaking to Ken, and it is possible that iON picked up on Ken's emotional / visceral connection with the avatar experience. I only make the qualification (imm. above), as we know that wherever your joy and desire lies, therein also lies your avenue for bringing everything together for you in your physical experience, the dirty here and now. I really enjoy the gaming / avatar experience, and it is a journey when you engage these experiences, so I'm right there. I can't say if iON sees this (the avatar engagement example) for everyone, including those with no interest in the avatar experience. I'll leave that for someone else to probe. As far as I'm concerned, I'm elated that this is a factor, because experiencing the chip body in that way is a blast. So, Second Lifers, World of Warcrafters, or whomever, get on with your bad self! As iON (and Bob) has said, these so-called bodies, these extensions of ourselves, are telegraphing / forecasting what we are about to experience in the physical. ![]() There is no such thing as fiction. We are engaging with these experiences, before we have them, in a way that sets them up and allows us to become familiar with them "in the round", as it were, in full, high definition and state of the art surround sound. It's as if we're trying on experiences for size, and picking and choosing those which we prefer. It's a great way to do it. As iON has said, the pyramids haven't come into their full purpose / use yet, but they were placed there in our now, so we would recognize and be familiar with them in our future. It makes perfect sense this way. We allow our imaginations to create anything we desire; we toy with the ideas, create an experience with them that we can probe and have fun with, and then those experiences we desire / choose become part of / merge with our physical experience. One can't say (yet) if this was the intention behind the creation of our tools - these extensions of ourselves, but it has played out in a way, shed in this light, that is quite intriguing. BART |
Author: | Bart [ November 10th, 2011, 4:36 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Recent MoMs with iON |
I wanted to add some links related to the chip body / avatar experience mentioned previously. Second Life - http://secondlife.com Honestly, I created an avatar (there's a thought - creating other bodies...) a couple of years ago, flew around the "new arrival" island for about ten minutes and haven't played since. haha Others may know more about this than I, but the world is teaming with continents to explore. It is an endless, very populated, "living" (social) experience. At the time, I wanted more "game" and it was more a tourist attraction. Plan to try again. Face of Mankind - http://www.faceofmankind.com/content/game This one I played a little more. You customize your avatar and arrive at the "new arrival depot", a structure on some foreign planet. You start out with a gun, and although this is more a "game" than a strictly social environment, the locales are expansive and the action isn't as intense as other rpg games; although, I don't believe I played enough to get a real feel for that. Face of Mankind actually has various planets you can travel to, which I believe are themed (e.g., rock and roll planet, etc.). These environments are massive - and growing. They are actually a blast to explore, they go on forever, and you're always finding new things. Aside from these two groundbreaking "simulations", for lack of a better term, there are plenty of really well done, free mmorpgs (massively multiplayer online role playing games). Here are four top sites that list free mmorpg games: http://www.freemmorpglist.com http://goo.gl/mibqI http://goo.gl/yFD69 http://goo.gl/ocWAe The free-to-play market has exploded, and you can now find games to play that are just as fun and polished as those that come from the big studios. Some free mmorpgs I can recommend: DC Universe Online Allods Shaiya Wizard 101 Runes of Magic Global Agenda LOCO: Land of Chaos Online Karos Online Alganon Neo Steam There are new ones coming out every month... It's hard to keep up... iON was referring to, or the conversation in general was making reference to Second Life. Perhaps iON can confirm as to whether or not one could gain the same benefit by engaging in the mmorpgs as one would have engaging an avatar experience in Second Life (i.e., that there is no difference). I would suggest there isn't; that the same sort of experience is had in both engagements... |
Author: | iON [ November 10th, 2011, 4:45 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Recent MoMs with iON |
You asked yourself, answered yourself, agreed with yourself, suggested to yourself, differed to yourself, to validate from OUR SELF that yourself notes no difference, so OUR SELF concurs with YOUR SELF iON |
Author: | Bart [ November 11th, 2011, 7:41 pm ] |
Post subject: | Re: Recent MoMs with iON |
The game I referred to earlier that had different planets to visit was Entropia Universe. http://www.entropiauniverse.com/entropia-universe/the-planets The size of these environments is insane. Just wanted to pass that on... |
Author: | iON [ November 15th, 2011, 1:42 am ] |
Post subject: | Re: Recent MoMs with iON |
http://youtu.be/5phqDvrWNZc iON |
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