Dupes of Non-Physical

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 Post subject: Re: Timeless
PostPosted: January 13th, 2012, 5:14 pm 
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Joined: February 18th, 2011, 8:22 pm
Posts: 467
Location: non-local
It's ill-advised to use a concept / term to denote its opposite (e.g., to say
one is "not sick", meaning "in perfect health").

So, the notion of timelessness still evokes / struggles with time. Just like
the complaint, "I don't want to be poor" evokes poverty.

As a perfect physical condition is the antithesis to sickness / illness, what
would be a better antithesis to time?

Eternity still suggests duration, and I see it as possible to enjoy this endless
unfoldment without projecting (e.g., a spans) onto it, or removing one's
awareness from the experience itself.

On a side note, to me, the dialectical play Bob engages in, based in large
part on McLuhan's (and now iON's) contributions, imparts this detachment,
or break from the limited, visual, fabricated matrices on which the construct
of time is based.

Because time is an intellectual construct / part of these agreed upon realities,
the interrupt that Bob can effect in regular discourse seems to be able to
impart the first glimpse of this notion of timelessness.

The oblique angle Bob - and iON - takes to the subject matter we've become
so ingrained in can come off, at first, as ridiculous, absurd, or difficult to
understand.

However, when insights are gained in moments of passive reflection, it can be
like pulling a loose thread, and beginning the unraveling process.

People who have spoken with Bob have shared of having a sort of psychic or
spiritual experience, and I'm not surprised.

Bob will say much of what he's sharing is profound. It is - deceptively so.

I've had some piercing insights reflecting on what Bob has shared. On occasion,
while engaged in dialogue with him.

It's all tied together, literally. Our perceptions are tied to our communications;
dialogue; the words we use.

When we name something, it takes on a solid, concrete reality to us.

iON urges us to change our vocabulary. Not just as a means of creation, but,
obviously, as a means of aligning ourselves in some way with, or in relation to
our experiences.

Perhaps it would be better to replace the word time with frequency (e.g., "What
frequency is it?")?

We still have a "what" (i.e., a degree of separation - from ourself, and from an
immediate contact with the "now"; "us"; our power) in there, however, which
clearly indicates the notion of duration, or spans will pass as our notion of time
does, leaving the raw, immediate experience itself...Bliss.

Edit to add: iON's statement that "what you can see isn't real, and what you
can't see is real" has just such an effect.

When reflected upon, one's attention is withdrawn from our visual space,
which has, heretofore, occupied most of our attention, and moves back to our
body; our other senses / feeling place.

These are just words, and yet we can engage them in other than simply
a means of speaking and creating, but by adjusting our position.

It's not that these are completely novel, or that they are dissimilar from what
has been written or spoken before, but there is an element in our engagement
here that has an affect on the listener / interlocutor.

This was the magic in J. Krishnamurti's words, as well as Bob's other "holy
offices".

One can't take it seriously, but just know that playing with words is playing
with perception. And I'd almost forgotten that that can take you places...


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 Post subject: Re: Timeless
PostPosted: January 19th, 2012, 12:12 am 
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Joined: April 28th, 2010, 12:58 pm
Posts: 37
Bart wrote:
It's ill-advised to use a concept / term to denote its opposite (e.g., to say
one is "not sick", meaning "in perfect health").

So, the notion of timelessness still evokes / struggles with time. Just like
the complaint, "I don't want to be poor" evokes poverty.

As a perfect physical condition is the antithesis to sickness / illness, what
would be a better antithesis to time?

Eternity still suggests duration, and I see it as possible to enjoy this endless
unfoldment without projecting (e.g., a spans) onto it, or removing one's
awareness from the experience itself.

On a side note, to me, the dialectical play Bob engages in, based in large
part on McLuhan's (and now iON's) contributions, imparts this detachment,
or break from the limited, visual, fabricated matrices on which the construct
of time is based.

Because time is an intellectual construct / part of these agreed upon realities,
the interrupt that Bob can effect in regular discourse seems to be able to
impart the first glimpse of this notion of timelessness.

The oblique angle Bob - and iON - takes to the subject matter we've become
so ingrained in can come off, at first, as ridiculous, absurd, or difficult to
understand.

However, when insights are gained in moments of passive reflection, it can be
like pulling a loose thread, and beginning the unraveling process.

People who have spoken with Bob have shared of having a sort of psychic or
spiritual experience, and I'm not surprised.

Bob will say much of what he's sharing is profound. It is - deceptively so.

I've had some piercing insights reflecting on what Bob has shared. On occasion,
while engaged in dialogue with him.

It's all tied together, literally. Our perceptions are tied to our communications;
dialogue; the words we use.

When we name something, it takes on a solid, concrete reality to us.

iON urges us to change our vocabulary. Not just as a means of creation, but,
obviously, as a means of aligning ourselves in some way with, or in relation to
our experiences.

Perhaps it would be better to replace the word time with frequency (e.g., "What
frequency is it?")?

We still have a "what" (i.e., a degree of separation - from ourself, and from an
immediate contact with the "now"; "us"; our power) in there, however, which
clearly indicates the notion of duration, or spans will pass as our notion of time
does, leaving the raw, immediate experience itself...Bliss.

Edit to add: iON's statement that "what you can see isn't real, and what you
can't see is real" has just such an effect.

When reflected upon, one's attention is withdrawn from our visual space,
which has, heretofore, occupied most of our attention, and moves back to our
body; our other senses / feeling place.

These are just words, and yet we can engage them in other than simply
a means of speaking and creating, but by adjusting our position.

It's not that these are completely novel, or that they are dissimilar from what
has been written or spoken before, but there is an element in our engagement
here that has an affect on the listener / interlocutor.

This was the magic in J. Krishnamurti's words, as well as Bob's other "holy
offices".

One can't take it seriously, but just know that playing with words is playing
with perception. And I'd almost forgotten that that can take you places...


I probably didn't need to copy this whole thing but there are a couple of points I'd like to make about this...

Bart - you're obviously a well educated man/god/cop and I read your posts for that reason...I love ya honey but sometimes too much info for this simple woman/god/logger is more than I have time to read!! Really enjoyed this post though (take what I say with love because that's the only way I operate)...just sayin! I heard all you said and agree but wanted to put a few points in what I've learned about the words we use and changing our vocabulary.

Don't remember the book & chapter of the Bible (I've forgotten more than I'll ever remember!)but it talks about life and death being in the tongue, I know iON has said it. So through what iON has taught me and Bob said...Ascension is in the mouth! What I've learned and am continuing to learn and change is MY vocabulary and/or MY thoughts...for instance, as simple as it is, because I focus on the positive/good/grateful things, I've realized I'm seeing more positive things happen for me. Of course the negative/bad/evil things are out there, they just don't exist any longer...in MY world. It is part of the process of ascension, as I pull myself more to that kind of thinking, I pull myself closer to MY non-physical/god/spirit/soul/universe...not only that, it creates a vacuum from non-physical...I AM not stopping...as long as I don't stop, non-physical will draw ME to it/them/us! Then we became one and now, as Bob said today, it becomes autonomical...100%/100% partnership...it is pure bliss and everything I SEE is through the eyes of non-physical/Deb/Deborah/granny!! If this is what they call crazy, call me crazy!!!

Pure bliss my friends, pure bliss! Bernadette, you're doing great, keep those visions in your head driving down the road, just don't crash, you'll understand them as you continue to ascend. How awesome that they're coming often...it truly is non-physical just simply giving you answers to YOUR questions. Don't try to understand them, try to acknowledge them more, as you do you'll find they've been there all along, you just didn't recognize them...when I get to my 'why' I usually HEAR iON's voice with the answer...yes, iON and I speak all the time, it's not my imagination!! People just want to keep me in a less than place and tell me I'm off my rocker, when this is all stuff I had forgotten!! I AM remembering...funny how that works, isn't it.

Ok, no Bart didn't take my computer over, I just like to blab sometimes so decided to do it here...actually iON told me to get on dupes!! Have a great night/day wherever you are!

Much Love and Gratitude
Deborah


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 Post subject: Re: Timeless
PostPosted: January 19th, 2012, 4:59 am 
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Joined: November 10th, 2011, 6:18 pm
Posts: 87
Location: UK
Morning Deborah,

You are mixing me up with Enid.

Bernadette


Pure bliss my friends, pure bliss! Bernadette, you're doing great, keep those visions in your head driving down the road, just don't crash, you'll understand them as you continue to ascend. How awesome that they're coming often...it truly is non-physical just simply giving you answers to YOUR questions. Don't try to understand them, try to acknowledge them more, as you do you'll find they've been there all along, you just didn't recognize them...when I get to my 'why' I usually HEAR iON's voice with the answer...yes, iON and I speak all the time, it's not my imagination!! People just want to keep me in a less than place and tell me I'm off my rocker, when this is all stuff I had forgotten!! I AM remembering...funny how that works, isn't it.


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 Post subject: Re: Timeless
PostPosted: January 19th, 2012, 7:51 am 
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Joined: February 18th, 2011, 8:22 pm
Posts: 467
Location: non-local
grannygoose wrote:
Bart, meagerly offering for the edification of his fellow posters from the kindness of his own unfathomably deep heart, wrote:
It's ill-advised to use a concept / term to denote its opposite (e.g., to say
one is "not sick", meaning "in perfect health")...


...I love ya honey but sometimes too much info for this simple woman/god/logger is more than I have time to read!!

Much Love and Gratitude
Deborah


I was considering quoting both of our posts in their entirety, but decided against it. hehe

grannygoose barbing with great self-satisfaction wrote:
Ok, no Bart didn't take my computer over, I just like to blab sometimes so decided to do it here...


I love how my verbosity is this tacit running joke. Also, your descriptor "blab" hasn't escaped notice. hehe

I'm kidding.

Bob, J.W. and iON have all said that my posts are too verbose (Of course iON would say that. He's the
e.e. cummings of the Astral plane.).

Bob: "You're posts are too fucking long. Why do you write such long posts? Nobody has the
time to read the fucking things?"

Me: (crying)

iON's told me that I could shorten the posts and hold a middle ground. Happy to do so.

No big deal. More words, less words...Sometimes I get on a tear...

Will tread the middle ground. I do not take anything personally, by the way. Obviously.

You said,

grannygoose wrote:
Ascension is in the mouth! What I've learned and am continuing to learn and change
is MY vocabulary and/or MY thoughts...

for instance, as simple as it is, because I focus on the positive/good/grateful things, I've realized
I'm seeing more positive things happen for me.

Of course the negative/bad/evil things are out there, they just don't exist any longer...in MY world.

It is part of the process of ascension, as I pull myself more to that kind of thinking, I pull myself closer
to MY non-physical/god/spirit/soul/universe...not only that, it creates a vacuum from non-physical...


Just for the sake of conversation, and ignoring what I just said about shortening my posts, I would say
to avoid the value judgments (i.e., good, positive, negative, bad, etc.).

Just like iON urging us to avoid using the word "conscious", or "consciousness", because you empower
its antithesis (i.e., a creator may require, or feel it necessary, unbeknownst to them, to manifest
"unconsciousness" in certain circumstances; this then becomes either an unwelcome experience, or
an as-yet-to-be experience that acts as a rule / a wedge, further separating you from you until it
occurs).

Never limit. There's no need to. There are none.

This is why contrast is a great term for experiences we may not wish to have, or to re-experience,
because there isn't an antonym waiting around the corner to get us further crossways.

There is no such thing as good / bad, or positive / negative in the way you're using these terms. These
are value judgments, they're inherently limiting, and are subjective.

If you get stuck applying those terms to your experiences, you're likely to get tangled up, or crossways
with your experiences.

You could be enjoying "positive" experiences, and then have what you might call a "negative" experience
and have the whole thing fall part, because you can't be ascending / ascended and have "negative"
experiences. Then you're off to the races.

We will have contrast on a personal level, but it is the degree of contrast that will diminish as we move
forward.

This is an individual process. iON does say, as much as he can flip-flop like a fish, that we will get to a
point where there is no contrast.

Bob or another member can clarify this, but I think iON even went as far as to say (paraphrasing), "It's
not that you will experience contrast and not care - there will not be any contrast in your experience."

grannygoose wrote:
I AM not stopping...as long as I don't stop, non-physical will draw ME to it/them/us!

Then we became one and now, as Bob said today, it becomes autonomical...100%/100% partnership...
it is pure bliss and everything I SEE is through the eyes of non-physical/Deb/Deborah/granny!!


Yes! This is exactly right!

The more you never mind / get out of your own way, the more your greater self - the other you / source /
non-physical can operate through you.

The drops make this process very easy. Exactly right, though. It becomes autonomic.

We start out in this place where we're asking all of these questions. Our minds are pushing for the dominant
position, and they want answers.

What happens soon after that, though? We quiet down, and just begin "being". We begin, more and more, to
just move through our experiences with less of the mind chatter / analysis.

This is where that greater part of ourselves begins syncing up and operating, more and more, through us.

At that point, if a thought arises, the answer easily and fluidly arises in response.

As a convenient referent, for the moment, this is the process, to me, of omniscience.

Perhaps omniscience isn't containing all knowing of all things at once as we're accustomed to juggling thoughts
and information, but rather if a notion or thought arises, the answer arises easily and perfectly.

It's not as though we'll be overwhelmed by images and concepts of everything at once, as we might have
presumed, but rather that nothing is more than a consideration away.

We're free to enjoy and play without all of the burden of carrying all of this information / data.

And that's one to grow on. hhaah


Image

You know what saying, "When you're laughing you're learning"? Well, when I'm writing you're learning.

hhaa I'm kidding again. What an ego...

Ok, no Deb didn't take my computer over, I just like to blab sometimes so decided to do it here...

haahah I am kidding.


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 Post subject: Re: Timeless
PostPosted: January 19th, 2012, 10:58 am 
Indralady wrote:
Morning Deborah,

You are mixing me up with Enid.

Bernadette


Pure bliss my friends, pure bliss! Bernadette, you're doing great, keep those visions in your head driving down the road, just don't crash, you'll understand them as you continue to ascend. How awesome that they're coming often...it truly is non-physical just simply giving you answers to YOUR questions. Don't try to understand them, try to acknowledge them more, as you do you'll find they've been there all along, you just didn't recognize them...when I get to my 'why' I usually HEAR iON's voice with the answer...yes, iON and I speak all the time, it's not my imagination!! People just want to keep me in a less than place and tell me I'm off my rocker, when this is all stuff I had forgotten!! I AM remembering...funny how that works, isn't it.



oh dear, Bernadette... agree we'd better set the record straight before your reputation goes down the tubes!
But thanks Deborah for the above.. i find iON very quick to 'just be there' when i call (but i guess that's because he simply never leaves) but now i am beginning to be more and more aware of this. i rave and rant, and he lets me, standing back in the shadows... but all i have to do is call and he steps forward with... Yeeeeees (you know that deep voiced one). although i think he remains poised for a quick side step in the most likely event of one of my left hook swings! and boy can i ever bellow! but this is our relationship and it's very special. Enid


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 Post subject: Re: Timeless
PostPosted: January 19th, 2012, 11:20 am 
Bart wrote:
grannygoose wrote:
Bart, meagerly offering for the edification of his fellow posters from the kindness of his own unfathomably deep heart, wrote:
It's ill-advised to use a concept / term to denote its opposite (e.g., to say
one is "not sick", meaning "in perfect health")...


...I love ya honey but sometimes too much info for this simple woman/god/logger is more than I have time to read!!

Much Love and Gratitude
Deborah


I was considering quoting both of our posts in their entirety, but decided against it. hehe

grannygoose barbing with great self-satisfaction wrote:
Ok, no Bart didn't take my computer over, I just like to blab sometimes so decided to do it here...


I love how my verbosity is this tacit running joke. Also, your descriptor "blab" hasn't escaped notice. hehe

I'm kidding.

Bob, J.W. and iON have all said that my posts are too verbose (Of course iON would say that. He's the
e.e. cummings of the Astral plane.).

Bob: "You're posts are too fucking long. Why do you write such long posts? Nobody has the
time to read the fucking things?"

Me: (crying)

iON's told me that I could shorten the posts and hold a middle ground. Happy to do so.

No big deal. More words, less words...Sometimes I get on a tear...

Will tread the middle ground. I do not take anything personally, by the way. Obviously.

You said,

grannygoose wrote:
Ascension is in the mouth! What I've learned and am continuing to learn and change
is MY vocabulary and/or MY thoughts...

for instance, as simple as it is, because I focus on the positive/good/grateful things, I've realized
I'm seeing more positive things happen for me.

Of course the negative/bad/evil things are out there, they just don't exist any longer...in MY world.

It is part of the process of ascension, as I pull myself more to that kind of thinking, I pull myself closer
to MY non-physical/god/spirit/soul/universe...not only that, it creates a vacuum from non-physical...


Just for the sake of conversation, and ignoring what I just said about shortening my posts, I would say
to avoid the value judgments (i.e., good, positive, negative, bad, etc.).

Just like iON urging us to avoid using the word "conscious", or "consciousness", because you empower
its antithesis (i.e., a creator may require, or feel it necessary, unbeknownst to them, to manifest
"unconsciousness" in certain circumstances; this then becomes either an unwelcome experience, or
an as-yet-to-be experience that acts as a rule / a wedge, further separating you from you until it
occurs).

Never limit. There's no need to. There are none.

This is why contrast is a great term for experiences we may not wish to have, or to re-experience,
because there isn't an antonym waiting around the corner to get us further crossways.

There is no such thing as good / bad, or positive / negative in the way you're using these terms. These
are value judgments, they're inherently limiting, and are subjective.

If you get stuck applying those terms to your experiences, you're likely to get tangled up, or crossways
with your experiences.

You could be enjoying "positive" experiences, and then have what you might call a "negative" experience
and have the whole thing fall part, because you can't be ascending / ascended and have "negative"
experiences. Then you're off to the races.

We will have contrast on a personal level, but it is the degree of contrast that will diminish as we move
forward.

This is an individual process. iON does say, as much as he can flip-flop like a fish, that we will get to a
point where there is no contrast.

Bob or another member can clarify this, but I think iON even went as far as to say (paraphrasing), "It's
not that you will experience contrast and not care - there will not be any contrast in your experience."

grannygoose wrote:
I AM not stopping...as long as I don't stop, non-physical will draw ME to it/them/us!

Then we became one and now, as Bob said today, it becomes autonomical...100%/100% partnership...
it is pure bliss and everything I SEE is through the eyes of non-physical/Deb/Deborah/granny!!


Yes! This is exactly right!

The more you never mind / get out of your own way, the more your greater self - the other you / source /
non-physical can operate through you.

The drops make this process very easy. Exactly right, though. It becomes autonomic.

We start out in this place where we're asking all of these questions. Our minds are pushing for the dominant
position, and they want answers.

What happens soon after that, though? We quiet down, and just begin "being". We begin, more and more, to
just move through our experiences with less of the mind chatter / analysis.

This is where that greater part of ourselves begins syncing up and operating, more and more, through us.

At that point, if a thought arises, the answer easily and fluidly arises in response.

As a convenient referent, for the moment, this is the process, to me, of omniscience.

Perhaps omniscience isn't containing all knowing of all things at once as we're accustomed to juggling thoughts
and information, but rather if a notion or thought arises, the answer arises easily and perfectly.

It's not as though we'll be overwhelmed by images and concepts of everything at once, as we might have
presumed, but rather that nothing is more than a consideration away.

We're free to enjoy and play without all of the burden of carrying all of this information / data.

And that's one to grow on. hhaah


Image

You know what saying, "When you're laughing you're learning"? Well, when I'm writing you're learning.

hhaa I'm kidding again. What an ego...

Ok, no Deb didn't take my computer over, I just like to blab sometimes so decided to do it here...

haahah I am kidding.



Well for what it is worth... the only reason i entertain Bart's TOO LONG posts (according to Bob)
is because... (you listening BOB?)
when i post something... Bart says...

"EXCELLENT nid"

so appears you (Bob) are having a hard time understanding that a gal will go to any LENGTHS (as in TOO LONG A LENGTH)
to be reminded of her excellence
and just to give you a nudge in the right direction (and to which i am sure you will be much relieved to hear)

SIZE DOESN'T FUCK'N COUNT!!


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 Post subject: Re: Timeless
PostPosted: January 19th, 2012, 11:23 am 
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Joined: November 10th, 2011, 6:18 pm
Posts: 87
Location: UK
oh dear, Bernadette... agree we'd better set the record straight before your reputation goes down the tubes!

Hey Nid,

What happened to you last night did you end up in the wardrobe again,you missed de Bob.

Indra.


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 Post subject: Re: Timeless
PostPosted: January 19th, 2012, 12:11 pm 
Indralady wrote:
oh dear, Bernadette... agree we'd better set the record straight before your reputation goes down the tubes!

Hey Nid,

What happened to you last night did you end up in the wardrobe again,you missed de Bob.

Indra.




noo... didn't "missed de Bob"... just couldn't get a word in edgewise when he was on
(then dozed off)


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 Post subject: Re: Timeless
PostPosted: January 19th, 2012, 2:46 pm 
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User avatar

Joined: February 18th, 2011, 8:22 pm
Posts: 467
Location: non-local
nid wrote:
...
SIZE DOESN'T FUCK'N COUNT!!


Actually, some of my posts could be considered as long as some
of Bob's monologues.

The only difference being that I'm using an archaic and dead form
of communication to which Bob attributes the fall of mankind and
the beginning of hell on earth.

But, hey, I do get some zingers in there every now and then, and
that's what it's all about...right...? Yeah...it's fun...


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 Post subject: Re: Timeless
PostPosted: January 19th, 2012, 3:03 pm 
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Joined: October 8th, 2010, 12:14 pm
Posts: 59
Location: Whidbey Island
Image


Grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr


Just be in the stillness and quiet...............................

_________________
Sillywizard
"tricks are for kids"


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