Dupes of Non-Physical

It's hard to tell androids from humans when humans are imitating machines imitating humans imitating machines imitating humans...

Perhaps this marvelous human creator business is just a temporary antidote to the human's "god" hangup, or the "sentiment of an invisible omniscience" until they either off themselves because they bought into a limited modality ("I am human") or they get over their humanness complex and realize it's just a meatsack/world, I/Thou, I/it hylomorphism out of infinite configurations that could be arrived at on the path of questioning the answers (including assumptions about perception and body-image).

My Human Gets Me Blues
vid: http://bit.ly/ckAn2a /

lyrics: http://bit.ly/aUdj4x

I saw yuh baby dancin' in your x-ray gingham dress
I knew you were under duress
I knew you were under yer dress
Just keep comin' Jesus
Your the best dressed
You look dandy in the sky but you don't scare me
Cause I got you here in my eye
In this lifetime you got m'humangetsmeblues
With yer jaw hangin' slack n' yer hair's curlin'
Like an ole navy fork stickin' in the sunset
The way you were dancin' I knew you'd never come back
You were strainin' t' keep yer
Old black cracked patent shoes
In this lifetime you got m'humangetsmeblues
Well the way you'd been ole lady
I could see the fear in yer windows
Under yer furry crawlin' brow
Uh silver bow rings up in inches
You were afraid you'd be the devils red wife
But it's alright God dug yer dance
'n would have you young 'n in his harum
Dress you the way he wants cause he never had uh doll
Cause everybody made him uh boy
'n God didn't think t' ask his preference
You can bring yer dress 'n yer favorite dog
'n yer husbands cane
'n yer old spotted dog
Cause in this lifetime
You've got m'humangetsmeblues

--
Chad

In the Buber quote above I made an association between God and (Non-Physical) which I'm uncomfortable with in light of your (Tayzay) response. I believe God-ness encompasses meat-sac/brain, meta-physical (bridge) and non-physical. Still for me there is the persistent recognition of Self/Other. Allow me to quote Buber once again.

"The eternal Thou is not an object of experience, and is not an object of thought. The eternal Thou is not something which can be investigated or examined. The eternal Thou is not a knowable object. However, the eternal Thou can be known as the absolute Person who gives unity to all being."

11:11 :
"The eternal Thou is not an object of experience, and is not an object of thought. The eternal Thou is not something which can be investigated or examined. The eternal Thou is not a knowable object. However, the eternal Thou can be known as the absolute Person who gives unity to all being."


Tayzay: mmmmmmm....
Ineffable = undefined with words; knowing-ness.

Too bad we gotta use words "text" when we talk to one another.

o=kisses
x=hugs
=smiles
art=expression
dance=movement
........
words= expressing thoughts:

"the artful dance of hugs and kisses brings forth my smile."


xoxox

Bob,

Given these example lenses for the bodies:

Chemical Body: cells under a microscope
TV Body: photons on a video screen
Chip Body: binary code on a hard drive or over a network

What collective technological lens exists for the Astral Body? Or, is that what iON prefigures?

Chad

BOB: Traditionally, Kirlian photography registered the Astral Body.

iON is the collective technological lens for registering the Mystery Body.


Bob Neveritt

Perhaps ...

Seems your embedded in the Kroker quad-rant.
Even hugs and kisses take on a chip bias in this medium.

Buber = Thompson quad-rant

BOB: iON has said that NP is merging with our Physical and its extensions - a dramatic effect of the thinning of the veil... under present conditions.

iON has said that's why it uses the terminology of "Bob's Bastard Babies".

The traditional use of the imagination - "Imagination is that ratio among the perceptions and faculties which exists when they are not embedded or outered in material technologies. When so outered, each sense and faculty becomes a closed system." (McLuhan, 1962) - is being complicated under the new conditions of IMPOSSIBLE EXTRACTION, DETACHMENT, or IMPLOSION (two strategies of the Gnostic/Mystic):

[[Professor Mansell Jones in his Modern French Poetry (pp.30-31) takes up this theme with reference to two kinds of symbolism which he refers to as vertical and horizontal. Vertical symbolism is of the dualistic variety, setting the sign or the work of art as a link between two worlds, between Heaven and Hell. It is concerned with the world as Time process, as becoming, and with the means of escape from Time into eternity by means of art and beauty. Vertical symbolism asserts the individual will against the hoi polloi. It is aristocratic. Yeats is the perfect exemplar. Horizontal symbolism, on the other hand, sets the work of art and the symbol a collective task of communication, rather than the vertical task of elevating the choice human spirit above the infernal depths of material existence. In idealist terms, the vertical school claims cognitive status for its symbols, because the conceptual meanings attached to art are in this view a means of raising the mind of man to union with the higher world from which we have been exiled. Whereas, on the other hand, the horizontal, or space school, appeals to intuition, emotion and collective participation in states of mind as a basis for communication and of transformation of the self. The vertical school seeks to elevate the self above mere existence. The horizontal symbolists seek to transform the self, and ultimately to merge or annihilate it.

Mr. Eliot’s position is by no means simple or consistent within itself, but as between the vertical and horizontal camps, his poetic allegiance is markedly horizontal or spatial.

To Catholics, (for all of whom pre-existence is nonsense), the anguish generated over the problems of Time and Space and the self may well be baffling. However, if you are frantically concerned with seeking an exit from a trap, it is of the utmost urgency to understand the mechanism of the trap that holds you. Are you a prisoner of time? (‘History is a nightmare from which I am trying to awake,’ says the young esthete Stephen Dedalus.) If so, there are specific dialectical resources which can conduct an elite few to the escape hatch. Are you a prisoner of space? Are you a mechanical puppet manipulated by a thread held in remote, invisible hands? If so, you can learn the techniques of Yoga or Zen Buddhism or some related mode of illumination which will show you the *way*. To learn how to make perfect your will, you need to negate your own personality and to learn that detachment from self and from things and from persons which reveals the totally illusory character of self, things, and persons. Existence is not so much an historical trap in time as a wilderness of horrors multiplied by mirrors. Existence creates itself by an endless chain of suggestions richocheting off each other, just as a symbolist poem of the Eliot kind generates its meanings by spatial juxtaposition. A Catholic poet like Paul Claudel, of course, is not bound by these dichotomies of space and time, the vertical and horizontal. But all he has written is strongly marked with his keen awareness of the space-time controversies in art, politics and religion. (To the European, the comparative American ignorance of these doctrines as elaborated in art, is precisely what constitutes American innocence.) Thus in his section ‘On Time’ in Poetic Knowledge, Claudel takes up the space position, then appropriates the time ammunition as well:

... Claudel’s thought and poetry obviously move freely in both time and space. As a symbolist he avails himself to the utmost degree of the spatial techniques of inner and outer landscape for fixing particular states of mind. This procedure makes available to him all the magical resources invoked by the Romantics for using particular emotions as immediate windows onto Being, as techniques of connatural union with reality. But he values equally the resources of dialectic and continuous discourse. He can therefore be both Senecan or symbolist, and temporal. That would seem to be an inevitable program for any Catholic for whom Time and Space are not sectarian problems. Today many thoughtful people are torn between the claims of time and space, and speak even of The Crucifixion of Intellectual Man as he is mentally torn in these opposite directions. As the dispute quickens, the Catholic is more and more reminded of the inexhaustible wisdom and mercy of the Cross at every intersection instant of space and time. These moments of intersection became for Father Hopkins (and also for James Joyce) epiphanies.

... It is not the purpose of this paper to explain the complex falsehoods of the time and space schools of aesthetics, religion and politics. For a Catholic it is easy to admire and use much from each position. But by and large the vertical camp is rationalist and the horizontal camp magical in its theory of art and communication.”

- Marshall McLuhan, Eliot and the Manichean Myth as Poetry, Address to Spring symposium of the Catholic Renascence Society, April 19 ‘54, The McLuhan Papers, Vol. 130, File 29, Manuscript Division, National Archives of Canada, Ottawa.]]

McLuhan, like iON, saw the BREAKDOWN of these 2 schools/approaches as a BREAKTHROUGH.


Bob Neveritt

We've come to the conclusion "time" is not. That does away with the vertical school.
The Android Meme imploded in 2000. That does away with the horizontal school.